[Locked] We can form a single united body

[telaari]

Who: Alexstrasza & the Red Dragonsworn
What: The Red Dragonsworn need to figure out a chain of command that works for them. Vas has gathered everyone together to do just that.
When: July 30th
Where: The Ruby Sanctum
Warnings: Politics, personal and not.

"I have no doubt that you are wondering why I called you here."

Vastania stands at the edge of a circle of boulders twenty feet across. To her side is the Dragonqueen herself, and they both look outward at the gathered Redsworn. "It has become clear to me that we are without direction. We all do as we will, and not what is best for the whole. This must stop here and now. To continue to wander aimlessly, to pick off only a few demons at a time at our leisure, to fail to work as one - these are the things that will kill us. These are the things that will leave us divided and weak, and easy prey for the Legion."

The Vindicator takes a breath to calm her nerves, and continues. "This circle behind me is our meeting hall. It is here that we must decide how we will conduct ourselves. Those who enter the circle will be bound to certain rules: one may not sit, sleep, eat, or drink upon entering the circle. Should you enter and then leave, you will not be allowed in again. Should you grow weary, you must leave. Should you become violent, you will thrown out.

"These rules are harsh, but if you follow them, you will be allowed to speak your piece. Your opinions will be considered and weighed, as an equal. If you do not, you will have no say in any matter we discuss. Those who will not comment on policy do not deserve to set it." She stomps a steel-shod hoof against the ground, tail held high and proud.

"Come, let us all speak. Let us all decide, together, how the Red Dragonsworn will be led."

Comments

[telaari]

Hearing a defense for the Undead from Vala was shocking. Hearing it from Luke is a blow that knocks her feet out from under her, metaphorically speaking. Her head reels again, and she shakes it as if that might clear it.

"I- no, of course, not- you're human, Luke. Just as much as any human. What I am speaking of are things created by the Deceiver and his spawn."

[chosenfake]

Luke shook his head. "If I was created by someone evil, does that make me evil, too? I didn't ask to be born. I didn't ask for the powers I was given. The undead you're talking about-- did they? I admit I don't know anything about this world, and I only know a little bit about what you and your people have gone through, but I really don't like the sound of dismissing someone from the flight just because they're different or scary somehow.

"We're all from different places. We have to get along, even if we don't like each other all the time. It's the only choice we have."

[wilder]

Luke was braver than Zelos, speaking up about being a replica. Sure, he could mention casually that he was dead. But...about being a Chosen? About how he used to not be seen as a person either, just as a puppet for the Church and Cruxis to do what they will to? Yeah, he didn't have that guts.

But he sure could narrow his eyes at Vastania and speak up.

"Hey, Luke's right. You don't get to pick and choose whose human and whose not, it's not your place." His words had a slight underlying of annoyance to them. "If they can think for themselves, then they're people. Which means they should be judged by their actions and character, that's it."

"And lemme tell ya right now, I'm not gonna follow someone who feels they get to choose whose a person. I know you've probably been raised this way, but I suggest you re-evaluate your attitude if you wanna succeed here."

[telaari]

"You both presume much, if you think that the undead are given free will."

She shakes her head again, this time slowly - not upset, but disappointed. They still have so much to learn about the war that they've been forced into. "The Undead were created by the most terrible of all the Eredar lords. Do you think that he would give these creations free will? That he would not have any control over them whatsoever? The Undead are tools of the Legion. Any necromancer could impose his will on an undead thing without a second thought, and any demon can just as easily influence a necromancer.

"Whatever your situation is, you have your free will. Your souls are your own. That is not true for the Undead."

[wilder]

"I think you're the one presuming much here, Vastania."

His look isn't lessening. "I've seen enough mindless zombies and creatures with no free will to tell the difference." Like you know, most of his "race", but again- there is no courage to say that. "But that's irrelevant anyway. If the Dragonmages feel they're fit to become Sworn- then I doubt they're being controlled by any necromancer like you claim. Krasus and our lovely Dragon Queen aren't stupid enough to bring mindless undead into this place."

"So my point still stands. If you feel you're right to choose which Sworn are people and which ones are not- I'm not following you. It's as simple as that."

[chosenfake]

Luke glanced between Zelos and Vas, feeling a bit conflicted. On one hand, he had a friend who was wrong. On the other, they were both important to him. Luke wasn't the kind of person who could choose one friend over the other in casual conversation, let alone something as serious as this.

"Kaneis is right. I think we have to trust the queen and Krasus, too. Either way, talking about it right now won't really do anything. If we get someone in the flight who is undead or Forsaken or whatever, we'll deal with it then. I just..." He glances at his hands, then returns them to his sides. His eyes drift downward, matching the lowering of his voice. "Not everything is black and white. We should keep that in mind when we're talking about uniting the whole flight."

[telaari]

He's wrong, Vas wants to say. She runs through the rebuttal in her head: no, of course Krasus and Alexstrasza would never bring in a Forsaken - they're the antithesis of everything the Red Dragonflight should stand for! No undead thing would ever be allowed in the Ruby Sanctum!

She's about to speak when Luke comes to Kaneis' defense, and she stops herself. Her student is not educated in Azeroth's ways, but he is a paladin, however young he may be. And... he's not entirely wrong. There are no Forsaken Redsworn, not at this time. Maybe in the future, much as she doubts it, but not now.

She looks down at her hooves in turn, her throat suddenly feeling parched and raspy. "I... do not understand this phrase, 'black and white.'"

[wilder]

He's grateful that Luke comes to his defense. Zelos knows his words are harsh, and usually needs someone a bit nicer to temper things. Even if he still stands by what he says, he's not exactly an ace when it comes to tact. If anything, being away from the courts of Meltokio has only made that worse.

But at least, he'll explain what it means.

"...It's a human expression about morality and people. Black and white means everything is simple. Good and evil, right and wrong, light and darkness - things fall into either of those two categories."

"Except, it doesn't work that way with people. Most of the time, they fall somewhere in the middle - a giant gradient of gray."

[chosenfake]

Luke nodded slowly. "That's exactly what it is. I know paladins are supposed to be champions of the Light, but I was chosen to be one, and I'm definitely not a good example of... being good." He drops his voice a notch, thinking of the crazy religion the Order of Lorelei had turned out to be. "Righteous doesn't mean the same thing as innocent. If you kill someone, you carry their life with you until you die."

[telaari]

She looks to Luke, then back to Kaneis, brow creased in some amalgamation of confusion and worry. "How dark must that grey be, then, to be considered evil? Without 'black', without 'white', how would you know what is good and what is not? How can one be righteous, if there are not absolutes?

"If my world is too simple, how are yours moral?"

[wilder]

There's a look on Zelos's face, one that seems to be at slight disbelief at what she was saying. Was this girl seriously this naive about how complicated the worlds were? This went beyond religious zealotry, even the most die-hard believers in the Church of Martel had some level of understanding that there weren't always absolutes when it came to moral issues.

"I...don't think we have time to explain all the intricacies of morals in the world. At least, not without running the risk of our feet bleeding from all this standing." Or someone collapsing. "But generally in it's simplest form, hurting or mistreating someone who hasn't hurt anyone themselves is seen as bad."

[telaari]

"And I understand this," she says, brow still furrowed. "But would that not make prevention of future harm righteous? What of punishment for those who cause harm?"

She looks Kaneis dead in the eye. "You did not have a problem killing those furbolgs - a people, however primitive - in the forest, when their corruption was discovered only after they were dead. I expect they would not have surrendered regardless, but was it moral of you to kill them all, not knowing what they had become?"

[wilder]

And he looks back at her, his expression neutral. "Sure, I didn't know it was fel corruption until after. But we knew something was wrong with them when we got sent in. And we did try to talk to them first, but they just went straight for trying to kill us."

He puts a hand on his hip, a slight expression of reflection creeping in. "Still, was it the moral thing to do? I...don't know. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. Maybe I should've found a way to cleanse their corruption, or maybe there wasn't a way and inaction would've gotten people killed. It's hard to say, even now. I'm not omnipotent. I just made the choice that seemed like the best one at the time - what with the bears attacking me and all."

[telaari]

"Then why do you have any standing on what is right and wrong, if your world has no absolutes? You say that I don't get to decide what is evil and irredeemable - but on whose authority? Yours?"

She clenches her jaw, tail twitching again.

[wilder]

"None of the worlds have absolutes, darling. Not even yours, no matter how much you try to tell yourself otherwise."

But at her remark? He simply smiles. "But sure! You can go by my authority, if that's what it takes to prevent you from attacking other Sworn! I mean, I'd probably be the guy jumping in to stop you from trying anything anyway - so why not?"

[stormcalling]

Valamia had been trying to pay attention. Pay as much attention as someone could when trying to make actual progress in the meeting. The tones and words from them are easy enough to pick up and it was about time someone set the conversation straight. "Enough!" she turned to them, expression grim and a firmness in her voice.

"The case of not attacking other Sworn is something that can be figured out. That is to say, it seems perfectly agreeable not to do so unless it's clear they are a traitor to the flight. As for undead, understand that the Draenei have not had a encounter with a situation of a person being resurrected and it not being the result of a obviously evil force. As realized it is possible there are more forces that can bring one back to life beyond evil. If everyone would be so kind as to remember that each world does raise different problems and beliefs, we could try and move on. If it is time to side-track and see who can get under whose skin first. Those who desire to do that may wish to consider leaving the circle. Now."

A moment and she turned so Vas, eyes narrowed and her expression more grim then she had been giving the group. When she starts to address her, she's switched back to Eredun. "As for you. I would suggest after this you try and settle things with them. Every party is wrong but I suspect you would like to be an adult in this. Unless you truly believe the Light is the only right force in the universe. If you believe that it means you do not have to explain yourselves to others. In that case, you'll finally have become as deluded in your mentor and every other old Vindicator. The people that believes shamanism is a act against Light, the Broken are worthless and that only the Light is the answer. A person with their eyes shut tight and ignores anything they don't like."

[chosenfake]

Valamia had done a bit of talking in the ring, but Luke hadn't seen her snap quite like this before. He didn't think she'd turn around and basically start chewing out Vas. He didn't speak a lick of Eredun, obviously, so he just stared a bit, and then dropped his gaze to his feet.

"I really want us to get along," he murmured. "We have to, if we want to do anything. And I'm sorry for upsetting you, Vastania. I know I've been hiding a lot. I just didn't want you to think I was some kind of... monster."

[wilder]

He didn't think Valamia would jump in, but doing so was probably a good thing. It got Zelos to snap out of the tunnel vision and realize yeah, this probably wasn't the best time. They were all far too emotional, himself included.

It surprised him too to hear her chew out Vastania. He didn't speak Eredun, but he could tell from the tone and expression it was not words of encouragement. He almost even felt like he was eavesdropping, even if he couldn't understand anything.

So, properly scolded, he rubs the back of his neck and drops his gaze along with Luke. "Right...sorry. I'll focus."

[telaari]

Vala's words would have stung enough in Common; in her native tongue, they cut to the bone. Vas flinches, curling her hands up into fists and suddenly feeling very, very small. No, she wasn't Thoiir. She wasn't like him. She couldn't be like him. Not when he'd abandoned Vala. Not when he'd abandoned her...

She lowers her eyes, and takes a moment to think through what to say. "I... am sorry. I do not understand your worlds. And you... you could not have understood my Azeroth, or my Draenor."